Hindu Seer XI

My reply to a previous post:Dear Brother SarI wish you could have shown similar level of sensitivity to adjectives in mailsdirected at fellow members of this group! There were many more crude languagesused to refer to many of us (just for one example we were "barking"!)Just because someone (who is obviously not part of this group) is proclaimedreligious, even though the same person is accused of highest criminal charges,that became so personal?I am sorry if my calling a guy a guy hurt some people. I should have called himan "accused" or a "suspect" instead. But why should one suspect be addressedbetter than any other? The police calls all names when it comes to asuspect--you know the swears. But when it comes to someone is an influentialperson and most likely can misuse his/her power, why this "plain bias"?By the way, I am not firing up anything. I guess the reports are out and theprime suspect (aka sankaracharya) is in judicial custody. His bail applicationhas been adjourned. The news is out there on the wall. I am not instrumental infiring up anything. Every person involved in any way in a case of murder oughtto be treated in the same way as any other. Clearly this accused is on a higherplatform now, unfortunately. The police will not be kicking his ass to get theanswers out. Wont be treating him with third degree methods, would not bespitting on his face or burning his cheeks with cigarette butts and wont beswearing in choicest abuses questioning the parentage or sexual impotencies.Just for the records I have witnessed the police doing all this and much moreeven in case of people who have dared to steal bicycles or not cooperated ingiving bribes when demanded. Clearly there is a "plain bias".We know of this judiciary system where in name of Tada or Poto we have cagedthousands of innocent people for no charges at all. People who have not seen theface of the court since the time they are in jail. Not allowed to appeal for apublic lawyer or request for release. This accused who HAS been charged withmurder already has been allowed to move court!!! Clearly there is a "plainbias".To be the devil's advocate, the dangerous communalists Singhals and Tagodiashave joined the fray. Singhal compares this arrest with Somnath Templedestruction! Clearly the politics and religions are now mixed up to "fire up"issues. and the violent crusaders of peace, the trishul-bearing kar sevaks arealready on the street- yes making us--people like Sanjib or me--ashamed of beingcalled Indian--to see that representation of our country in name of religiousintolerance of a superstitious supremacist group. the non-violent, peacenik,internationalist India has been reduced to a communal violent playground forreligious fanatics.And I am not the one to fire up anything.Clearly its a vibrant case to debate on. Chinmaya did a favor on all of us bybringing in the article to our attention (not that it would have eventuallyescaped, but most us would may have preferred to ignore it...who knows? Going byP babu's mail, three regular contributors have already left the group! Idid not leave the group when they were discussing religious texts--if it is outof disgust that the religious seer has been arrested and they refuse to beidentified as religious anymore and have trouble in being treated so, its niceand they are more than welcome to be back. All of us realize our fundamentalfallacies at many junctures of life, anyway). And we are merely discussing thepros and cons of such treatments to 'seers'. We are not alone. The whole ofIndia is discussing. Media are editorializing. People are asking pertinentquestions.One of the questions of course is if a goonda could be a sankaracharya. BhaiSar, if you can go so far as to guarantee that its impossible, I at least amof some opinion that it could be true. In the past and present we have seen allmob violences in the name of religion. All those thousands of people have givenup their lives under one instruction of religious leaders. When the whole ofMumbai was burning (just to cite one example of event that happened during mylifetime), and many parts were being 'fired up' many people were charged withbeing goondas. And goondas they were. those preachers of religious goods.including advani who later most ironically accepted to become home minister whencharges were piled up against him of inciting communal violence.We all clearly know of this sankaracharya's connection with right-wing politics.What is there to be so sacred about him?Biased I am, Sar, because I cannot afford to be neutral or objective orunbiased -whatever that means and if thats possible in any way. Its time to takea side. To take side either of the exploiting politicians who use religions totheir advantage and even nurture chances of getting away with mass murders andcommunal clashes, or to take side of the people who have been taken for a rideand who have potentials to question the blind beliefs.We all have been taken for rides throughout. Sometimes by the founding fathersof the nation (look at that holy cow business in the directive principles ofstate policy. will we have any more tolerance for chicken or goat or pig as wehave for cow? to respect whom? Hindu country or secular country --even after thelate 70's when we got ourselves the secular tag), sometimes by the families andsocial institutions (look at the widespread same-caste marriages, and the wholethread ceremony stuffs--to prove what--as national geographic talks of, to quoteSan--that we are born unequal?) and all the lies that our teachers told usthrough the history of peace and glory and the golden age of indian culture(sic).'Tis time we questioned. San has sent an extremely insightful mail drawingfrom his caste experiences. That should do more than good for all of us to askour conscience to examine if we have asked the right questions? have wequestioned the systems of exploitation founded on religious beliefs? what do weowe to the generations of indigenous people for having perpetuated the class andcaste war on them for centuries. what can we give back? to seek forgiveness?instead we still enjoy the privilege of belonging to a mainstream religion toaddress issues from our narrowed lenses. to still wonder why saswat thinks asankaracharya could be a goonda. instead of thinking of all the crimes that havebeen committed in the land of ours in the name of our religion? millions dead sofar, certainly, not in quest to create something novel, or struggling in arevolution to feed every hungry child. millions have been condemned to death byreligious preachers by causing communal riots since the last sixty years. andwhat have we got here? the leader of the pack is still around. sounds crazy. butwe should have arrested all those spokesmen and women of right wing politics whohave been instrumental in everything communal much before. the charge of onesole murder was much belated.Dear brother Sar, I am not here to offend anyone's feelings. That's theleast of the goals. But it so happens that in airing one's own perspectives,there will be many others who will stand a chance of being offended. I havenever taken offense at the religious discourses in this group despite havingstrong feeling about the irrelevance of those talks in face of the fact thatOrissa faces problems and questions of different types. No one really can helpif a section of hindus felt bad that the seer was arrested. He will be releasedof course. Because of his clout. And some hindus will be dancing once again.Like they did in gujarat, like the way they do in ayodhya or nearer home whenthey cheered for dara singh.That dance sucks.With due respectSaswat_____Follows a right mail. And explains why Chinmaya did not need to have been polite. But good he was. Who wants a riot?This one is from another one threatening to leave the forum.

UGLY TRICKS OF PREUDO-ATHEISTS------------------------------The above statement asking for pardon from Chinmay has been repeatedin past several times - to M Babu to Ma Babu, toAn... He writes absurd stuff, illogical arguments; and then hewrites "I am sorry; I should have understood it; I am happy to beenlightened..."Besides, he poses a question, "why do you take things so seriouslyby heart?" as he questioned the same to me recently.These "poor people" do NOT take anything seriously by heart; that iswhy all the mess. If we are not serious about what we speak, whatare we going to achieve? If you have to make light amusement, do soin your own circle at a Tea-shop; not to some serious discussions. Iam against use of harsh words, but these people forced me to do so.Plainly, these people can do nothing but question some dogma withoutunderstanding or without trying to understand. Thus, they do not getany benefit, nor does the society. Besides, this apathy does nobenefit to people like M Babu or Ma Babu either!These are "psuedo-atheists". Because, an atheist is rational, anddoes huge contributions to the society. These crap-minded fellowsare nothing but burden on the society just because of theirirrational idiocy. that's it.Sanjib, in past I have explained several rationales in religion;read my postings before branding me as someone blindly followingreligion.Saswat, I called your group "poor" not in terms of economy; economyplayes no role in intellectual discussions. I called your group poorsimply because you are poor in rational, logical understanding. And,you understood economy! What a disgrace are you to such forum!I know that you pseudo-atheists have no ability to do anthing exceptbarking. That is why none of you came forward in proposing a roadmapto eliminate religion. If you are so much against it, why not removeit? Who does your barking benefit?I know: You cannot propose a roadmap nor can you execute it because(i) you have no ability to do so; and (ii) religion is just.Good bye. I wish you all safe opportunity of relentless barking.Good Bye,AA