My reply to a previous post:
Dear Brother Sar
I wish you could have shown similar level of sensitivity to adjectives in mails
directed at fellow members of this group! There were many more crude languages
used to refer to many of us (just for one example we were “barking”!)
Just because someone (who is obviously not part of this group) is proclaimed
religious, even though the same person is accused of highest criminal charges,
that became so personal?
I am sorry if my calling a guy a guy hurt some people. I should have called him
an “accused” or a “suspect” instead. But why should one suspect be addressed
better than any other? The police calls all names when it comes to a
suspect–you know the swears. But when it comes to someone is an influential
person and most likely can misuse his/her power, why this “plain bias”?
By the way, I am not firing up anything. I guess the reports are out and the
prime suspect (aka sankaracharya) is in judicial custody. His bail application
has been adjourned. The news is out there on the wall. I am not instrumental in
firing up anything. Every person involved in any way in a case of murder ought
to be treated in the same way as any other. Clearly this accused is on a higher
platform now, unfortunately. The police will not be kicking his ass to get the
answers out. Wont be treating him with third degree methods, would not be
spitting on his face or burning his cheeks with cigarette butts and wont be
swearing in choicest abuses questioning the parentage or sexual impotencies.
Just for the records I have witnessed the police doing all this and much more
even in case of people who have dared to steal bicycles or not cooperated in
giving bribes when demanded. Clearly there is a “plain bias”.
We know of this judiciary system where in name of Tada or Poto we have caged
thousands of innocent people for no charges at all. People who have not seen the
face of the court since the time they are in jail. Not allowed to appeal for a
public lawyer or request for release. This accused who HAS been charged with
murder already has been allowed to move court!!! Clearly there is a “plain
To be the devil’s advocate, the dangerous communalists Singhals and Tagodias
have joined the fray. Singhal compares this arrest with Somnath Temple
destruction! Clearly the politics and religions are now mixed up to “fire up”
issues. and the violent crusaders of peace, the trishul-bearing kar sevaks are
already on the street- yes making us–people like Sanjib or me–ashamed of being
called Indian–to see that representation of our country in name of religious
intolerance of a superstitious supremacist group. the non-violent, peacenik,
internationalist India has been reduced to a communal violent playground for
And I am not the one to fire up anything.
Clearly its a vibrant case to debate on. Chinmaya did a favor on all of us by
bringing in the article to our attention (not that it would have eventually
escaped, but most us would may have preferred to ignore it…who knows? Going by
P babu’s mail, three regular contributors have already left the group! I
did not leave the group when they were discussing religious texts–if it is out
of disgust that the religious seer has been arrested and they refuse to be
identified as religious anymore and have trouble in being treated so, its nice
and they are more than welcome to be back. All of us realize our fundamental
fallacies at many junctures of life, anyway). And we are merely discussing the
pros and cons of such treatments to ‘seers’. We are not alone. The whole of
India is discussing. Media are editorializing. People are asking pertinent
One of the questions of course is if a goonda could be a sankaracharya. Bhai
Sar, if you can go so far as to guarantee that its impossible, I at least am
of some opinion that it could be true. In the past and present we have seen all
mob violences in the name of religion. All those thousands of people have given
up their lives under one instruction of religious leaders. When the whole of
Mumbai was burning (just to cite one example of event that happened during my
lifetime), and many parts were being ‘fired up’ many people were charged with
being goondas. And goondas they were. those preachers of religious goods.
including advani who later most ironically accepted to become home minister when
charges were piled up against him of inciting communal violence.
We all clearly know of this sankaracharya’s connection with right-wing politics.
What is there to be so sacred about him?
Biased I am, Sar, because I cannot afford to be neutral or objective or
unbiased -whatever that means and if thats possible in any way. Its time to take
a side. To take side either of the exploiting politicians who use religions to
their advantage and even nurture chances of getting away with mass murders and
communal clashes, or to take side of the people who have been taken for a ride
and who have potentials to question the blind beliefs.
We all have been taken for rides throughout. Sometimes by the founding fathers
of the nation (look at that holy cow business in the directive principles of
state policy. will we have any more tolerance for chicken or goat or pig as we
have for cow? to respect whom? Hindu country or secular country –even after the
late 70’s when we got ourselves the secular tag), sometimes by the families and
social institutions (look at the widespread same-caste marriages, and the whole
thread ceremony stuffs–to prove what–as national geographic talks of, to quote
San–that we are born unequal?) and all the lies that our teachers told us
through the history of peace and glory and the golden age of indian culture
‘Tis time we questioned. San has sent an extremely insightful mail drawing
from his caste experiences. That should do more than good for all of us to ask
our conscience to examine if we have asked the right questions? have we
questioned the systems of exploitation founded on religious beliefs? what do we
owe to the generations of indigenous people for having perpetuated the class and
caste war on them for centuries. what can we give back? to seek forgiveness?
instead we still enjoy the privilege of belonging to a mainstream religion to
address issues from our narrowed lenses. to still wonder why saswat thinks a
sankaracharya could be a goonda. instead of thinking of all the crimes that have
been committed in the land of ours in the name of our religion? millions dead so
far, certainly, not in quest to create something novel, or struggling in a
revolution to feed every hungry child. millions have been condemned to death by
religious preachers by causing communal riots since the last sixty years. and
what have we got here? the leader of the pack is still around. sounds crazy. but
we should have arrested all those spokesmen and women of right wing politics who
have been instrumental in everything communal much before. the charge of one
sole murder was much belated.
Dear brother Sar, I am not here to offend anyone’s feelings. That’s the
least of the goals. But it so happens that in airing one’s own perspectives,
there will be many others who will stand a chance of being offended. I have
never taken offense at the religious discourses in this group despite having
strong feeling about the irrelevance of those talks in face of the fact that
Orissa faces problems and questions of different types. No one really can help
if a section of hindus felt bad that the seer was arrested. He will be released
of course. Because of his clout. And some hindus will be dancing once again.
Like they did in gujarat, like the way they do in ayodhya or nearer home when
they cheered for dara singh.
That dance sucks.
With due respect
Follows a right mail. And explains why Chinmaya did not need to have been polite. But good he was. Who wants a riot?
This one is from another one threatening to leave the forum.
UGLY TRICKS OF PREUDO-ATHEISTS
The above statement asking for pardon from Chinmay has been repeated
in past several times – to M Babu to Ma Babu, to
An… He writes absurd stuff, illogical arguments; and then he
writes “I am sorry; I should have understood it; I am happy to be
Besides, he poses a question, “why do you take things so seriously
by heart?” as he questioned the same to me recently.
These “poor people” do NOT take anything seriously by heart; that is
why all the mess. If we are not serious about what we speak, what
are we going to achieve? If you have to make light amusement, do so
in your own circle at a Tea-shop; not to some serious discussions. I
am against use of harsh words, but these people forced me to do so.
Plainly, these people can do nothing but question some dogma without
understanding or without trying to understand. Thus, they do not get
any benefit, nor does the society. Besides, this apathy does no
benefit to people like M Babu or Ma Babu either!
These are “psuedo-atheists”. Because, an atheist is rational, and
does huge contributions to the society. These crap-minded fellows
are nothing but burden on the society just because of their
irrational idiocy. that’s it.
Sanjib, in past I have explained several rationales in religion;
read my postings before branding me as someone blindly following
Saswat, I called your group “poor” not in terms of economy; economy
playes no role in intellectual discussions. I called your group poor
simply because you are poor in rational, logical understanding. And,
you understood economy! What a disgrace are you to such forum!
I know that you pseudo-atheists have no ability to do anthing except
barking. That is why none of you came forward in proposing a roadmap
to eliminate religion. If you are so much against it, why not remove
it? Who does your barking benefit?
I know: You cannot propose a roadmap nor can you execute it because
(i) you have no ability to do so; and (ii) religion is just.
Good bye. I wish you all safe opportunity of relentless barking.