Well, another attempt by me:
My dear comrades,
One of the major concerns: What kinds of questions are we asking?
None of us who opposed the religious discourses talked anything about “challenge”, or any roadmap to “eliminate religions” etc. These are as non-issues as any other rightist rhetoric could be. They were brought up by a person who has left this group now, as conitnuation of a logical fallacy.
If AA’s “challenge” be taken seriously, the counter will be something like, “Well, I challenge anyone to convert the entire world to believe in just one God” etc etc.. And here is where we miss the boat. Serious objections by some of us were raised precisely to oppose such kind of talks which served no real purpose. Instead what Chinmaya had brought to notice was an important news of the arrest of an alleged criminal who appeared to be held with esteem by some religious fanatics. That was it. Instead of talking in purely judicial terms and also analyzing the historiography of religious frauds, the self-proclaimed ‘theists’ took it personally! 🙂
I dont see why all these talk about “theist”, “pseudo-atheist” etc. And I dont see why someone should even consider any “challenges” posed by a person who left the group because he felt the ones who held contrary views were “barking relentlessly”…Basically by someone who was so intellectually challenged so as to leave the group in a huff after hurling some abuses at people who differed from the mainstream.
If any so-called “challenges to eliminate religions (sic)” are accepted, it will sound like the democrats arguing within the republican framework–dealing with the later’s concerns and trying to see how to face redundant challenges.
Seems to me that the issues as seen by Chinmaya or Vulcan or Anup or Sanjib or Saswat are radically different from how they were perceived by Mar, Man, AA or An and all other proclaimed “theists”.
There lies the misunderstanding.
The “summery of the whole episode” is as one-sided as it could be, obviously because it has been narrated by someone who anyway belonged to one school than the other. Not just in degree, but in type as well.
Wheras one school is raising questions about the questions, the other is challenging the seekers to supply with answers else to ‘stop barking’. Two different molds of thoughts here.
And here is one from Vulcan, that adorable man!
Since a Reality check is being asked …here it is for the renewed “AhwaAna”.
But before proceeding please makes sure you won’t run away like others.
What Manu did five thousand years ago, preachers of GOD still trying to continue & maintain it. Manu made Hindu society into four classes. There is no mobility. You are born a brahmin, that is the only way to be a brahmin. And that is the highest society, the topmost class. Then number two is the warriors, the kings . the Khyatriyas. But you are born in that caste, it is not a question that you can move. Then third is the class of the vaishyas, the business people; you are born in it. And the fourth is the sudras, the untouchables. All are born into their caste. That’s why, until Christianity started converting so many Hindus, particularly the sudras, who were ready, very willing to become Christians, because at least they would be touchable. Amongst Hindus, sudras are untouchable, and there is no way to get out of the structure.For your whole life you have to remain the same as your forefathers remained for five thousand years. For five thousand years there has been a stratified society. If somebody is a shoemaker, his family has been making shoes for five thousand years. He cannot do any other work, he cannot enter into any other profession. That is not allowed. Hindus were not a converting religion, because the great question was, if you convert somebody, in what class are you going to put the person? Christianity is a converting religion because it has no classification; you simply become a Christian. If Catholics convert you, you become a Catholic; if Protestants convert you, you become a Protestant. But in Hinduism you cannot be converted, for the simple reason: Where will you put the converted ? Brahmins won’t allow you, and you would not like to be put with the sudras, the untouchables. So then what is the point of coming to a religion where you will not be even touched? Even your shadow will be untouchable. And a brahmin has to take a bath if the shadow of a sudra falls on him. The sudra has not touched him, but his shadow is also untouchable. Being the ancient most religion, still Hinduism has not been spreading; it has been shrinking. Buddhism spread all over Asia, and it is only twenty-five centuries old. Hinduism is at least ten thousand years old, or more, but it could not spread, for the simple reason that birth is decisive. You can be a Hindu only by birth, just as you can be a Jew only by birth and these are the two most ancient religions.
But if you carefully notice & observe, you will find now the society is changing, people are marrying from different caste to caste , Govt is making some reservation to uplift the untouchable/backward classes, Restriction for sudra going to temple is removing, Untouchably is slowly disappearing etc., etc. Now hindus living & earning their daily bread outside Orissa & India eating holy cow meat, drinking holy madhus in party, listening disco,pop,rap (instead of classical hindu music) in a cultural festivals.Even now a days,does not bother to watch latest bollywood movies, with friends & families together, And these people don’t mind to go & lecture in a church, but when questioned leaving this forum on frustation.After all people like highest religious leader getting arrested like local goondas too :-).And the most surprising is other preachers of GOD ( like Imam etc) coming forward in support of him. Not just to show harmony but to make sure they should not face the similar consequence when the opposition party comes to power.
So what the preachers of GOD are saying about the happening of changes without a road maps/plans ? Do they need further plans/roadmaps etc on this regard? And why should a branded atheist respond to the call of a theist where as the Challenger run away from the forum when his/her own faith/belief of religion is sacked by branded atheist(s).
So I dare & challenge all these preachers of GOD to stop these happening of changes or spread Hinduism as the only Religion or merge all the Religions into one? Which ever you think best suited for you. But don’t worry I’ll not run away if you do not accept my challenge either, because I have enough confidence that you can’t do that rather will slowly accept & adapt to these happening of changes like the Internet, which is materialistic in nature.